Originally Posted by 5th Tuition (Post 9113)

This is not meant to be a smartass question. I really am trying to put all the pieces together and come up with an accurate answer. I'm not posting this on TF because it would cause 15 pages of turmoil. I'm optimistic that on CBA we can get a couple varying opinions and perhaps figure out what DNR and the Atlantic Fisheries Commision are thinking.

This is based TOTALLY on my perspective. I realize that it is biased, which is why I need other opinions.

First, lets start with pre season. DNR adopted restrictions which was suposed to reduce the stress and mortality on breeding cows. I believe the "effort" was dramaticly reduced because of the restrictions. I didn't see nearly the number of boats fishing that I have in other years. Additionally, the rockfish never showed up in large numbers during the "normal" fishing period. Some say the fish arrived early, and we just missed them.

Second, when DNR released the findings of the YOY, we were told that it was once again below average; but not to worry because the stock was healthy. In fact, it was so healthy that Md. had to spend a considerable amount of time contemplating on whether to vote IN FAVOR of increasing the coastal netting quota.

Lastly, I would say the late fall run never really materialized. In years past, I could count on six, seven, or eight rockfish on an average late fall trip. This year, I (and my friends) had a much more difficult time catching two or three large fish per trip. I believe the "take" was dramaticly reduced this fall.

So let's summerize, Less fish were caught in the spring season than in previous years. The stock is in a healthy shape. Less fish were caught in the late fall run.

So why wasn't the season extended for an additional two weeks? Is DNR telling us something by NOT extending the season? Are they saying that the stock IS in trouble?

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad the season wasn't extended. I think there is a problem with the stock. But why would DNR tell us one thing and act in an opposite way? I think the rockfish take by recreational anglers was down this year. This may be due to both restrictions and nature. But if the take was down and the stock is fine, why not extend the season?

How am I looking at this wrong? If we have another banner year like we had two years ago (and DNR extended the season), will DNR again keep the season open so we can continue to "harvest" more large cows?

What's your opinion; be respectfull.
5th (Marty)

p.s. I didn't include the comm. harvest because I don't know enough about it.

Originally Posted by reds (Post 9115)

I believe the season was extended 2 years ago because the rec quota was not even close to being caught. Why? One reason was thought to be the down economy and high fuel prices kept rec fishermen from fishing.

Originally Posted by Skip (Post 9119)

The gill netters are out there and catch many fish. I did hear the rec. season ends to avoid comm / rec trouble. Only snag there - recs. can still go out and C/R.

Originally Posted by B-Faithful (Post 9116)

It is based on targets for the recreational harvest.. based on our season length, creel, and size limits we should be about the target harvest in lbs under the ASMFC based on previous years and the levels of effort and participation.

Originally Posted by JigStix (Post 9125)

Marty, this is not targeted at you, more for people like, well Skip and his lemmings.

I love you guys that preach conservation while practicing kill all you can within your limit, and then ponder why noone takes you seriously. You hope and wish for a longer season to kill Rockfish, but throw out "put back all fish over 40". Conservation when it's convienient to you, like when they limit Catch and Release. You stand there at meetings and defend actions like trolling through a gannet storm, state that you are for saving the future of the rockfish population, and then in the same breath post on a public message board that you wish you could catch and kill later into the year. If you truly just love fishing, go catch and release and stop hoping for a longer kill season. You want to eat it, go buy it or eat one of the hundreds of fish you kill all year long that have to be overflowing your freezer.

Originally Posted by JigStix (Post 9125)

Marty, this is not targeted at you, more for people like, well Skip and his lemmings.

I love you guys that preach conservation while practicing kill all you can within your limit, and then ponder why noone takes you seriously. You hope and wish for a longer season to kill Rockfish, but throw out "put back all fish over 40". Conservation when it's convienient to you, like when they limit Catch and Release. You stand there at meetings and defend actions like trolling through a gannet storm, state that you are for saving the future of the rockfish population, and then in the same breath post on a public message board that you wish you could catch and kill later into the year. If you truly just love fishing, go catch and release and stop hoping for a longer kill season. You want to eat it, go buy it or eat one of the hundreds of fish you kill all year long that have to be overflowing your freezer.

Originally Posted by Skip (Post 9130)

Me taking a legal limit when I fish is not the trouble. You really need to direct your anger at the poachers.

Originally Posted by 5th Tuition (Post 9121)

Greg; I'm a bit confused. The past year is what we should expect to catch in a NORMAL year? We (rec.'s) hit our target number of fish this year?

This is the worst year I can remember for not only myself, but for most of the guys I fish with.

Based on the "cost" it took to try to put a limit on the boat, I wouldn't think about buying a new boat. I won't be buying much additional tackle over the winter (I"ll make do with what I have), and if gas prices either continue to rise, or remain at $3/gallon, the number of trips will be decreasing.

If this year is the new "normal", you will find many anglers who feel the cost/return factor is not enough to stay in the game.

To be perfectly honest, I could care less about eating/harvesting them. I enjoy catching them. Catching was slow this year (on our boats). If the population doesn't rebound soon, less and less rec. fishermen will be on the water. This doesn't bode well for tackle shops or boat builders.

If my livelyhood was based on fishing/boating, I would be screaming for something to be done to improve the stock.

I was looking for validation that "this is the new normal". That's sad.

5th (Marty)

Originally Posted by Breakaway (Post 9136)

Marty, so which is it? Are you concerned with how much it cost to put a limit on the boat or are you happy just catching fish? If you truly could care less about "eating/harvesting them" then why start this thread? If you just enjoy fishing, then go fishing.....no one is stopping you.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by 5th Tuition (Post 9137)

See if you can follow me on this. I enjoy fishing/catching rockfish. I like being on the water, the sun rising, the birds diving, setting lines, and reeling in fish. I would like to repeat the seasons of the past where I could go out and be relatively sure we would put 8 to 10 fish in the boat. I run a 22 ft boat and usually fish three people. This lets my guests reel in three fish each and I may get two. For me, this is a good day. It's worth the time and effort (and cost) associated with running the boat. OFTEN, we will only bring home only one fish for my two guests. Who needs more meat than a 39 inch rock can provide? Beside, I would rather eat a 28 inch fish.
I enjoy taking many of my friends (who are rookies) fishing. If they can catch a couple fish each, they are excited. Many have never caught a fish that big. But this year was different (at least for me). I mostly fished with fellow anglers who realized this was a down year. If we rode around all day and got skunked, they understood. The rookies would ***** and complain about the cold or inactivity.
You are right, no one is stopping me from fishing. But who (or what) is keeping me from catching. This is partially what this thread is about. Is DNR managing the stock efficiently? Is the EPA doing enough to help clean up the bay? Is Omega Protien consuming too much of the forage fish? Are poachers (both rec and comm) doing too much damage? Is the MSSA proposal to reduce the quota from gillnetting a good start? I just received an email from the CCA stating they just met with the Governor, yet they didn't tell me what came out of the meeting (why not). Are the organizations that are supposed to be representing the rec. angler doing a good job? If DNR really believes the stock is in trouble (just the opposite of what they say in print), what might be the new restrictions to be imposed - planer board line length, slot limits, starting the season later to allow more spawning, any other ideas.
This is why the thread was started. I wanted to know what's the current thinking inside the DNR? If they aren't going to extend the season when less fish are caught, then when are they ever going to extend the season? If less fish were caught this year, why is that. Is it just because the guys I fish with are crappy fishermen, and we can only catch fish when there are enormous numbers of fish in the bay, or is something else going on?
Sorry to spoonfeed all these topics to the group; but Breakaway was having trouble understanding why the thread was posted and in which direction I had hoped it would travel.
I'm concerned about the stock, I was trying to get a feel of how others felt and what could be done to help increase it. Some feel the stock is in good shape and nothing needs to be done. That's ok too. It's an opinion I can respect, but I need to find out why you feel it is good shape.
I suspect that Red's is a comercial fisherman and I get a different perspective
each time he posts. Did he and other comm's have a banner year? I know the gillnet season was cut short by a couple days, how come?
Were the fish in the bay at the same numbers as last year, but they were CONCENTRATED to certain area's where the knowledge of their whereabouts lead to great fishing, and the rest of us just ran around in circles dragging baits.
Breakaway; if you want to contribute to the discussion, pick one of the above topics. Love your Judge, they are sweet rides.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
5th (Marty)

p.s. I'll gladly sit on the sidelines and not post such topics in the future. I just get frustrated when I log on and find nothing new to read either website. Someone else can take the lead. It's a long winter ahead. Go for it!

Originally Posted by Mikie (Post 9142)

It would be in the best interests of everyone involved if there was a valid system in place to keep track of the total recreational catch. Then, if their "target" wasn't reached there may be a justifiable reason to extend the season.

Originally Posted by 5th Tuition (Post 9137)

p.s. I'll gladly sit on the sidelines and not post such topics in the future. I just get frustrated when I log on and find nothing new to read on the website. Someone else can take the lead. It's a long winter ahead. Go for it!

Originally Posted by Mikie (Post 9142)

That's why it's called "FISHING" and not "CATCHING". You pays yo' money and takes yo' chances!
The facts are; fishing is cyclical, we have just gone through several of the best years of fishing in the mid bay area that I've ever seen (I've been fishing on the bay since the early 60's, BEFORE fish finders, side scan and the internet). I remember catching fish, bottom bouncing, on Dolly's Lump before it was marked, lining up pilings on the bridge and shore for references (oh, that was the OLD bridge, the new one wasn't there yet).I remember when catching a trophy (over 36") was a big deal and maybe 50 or so total, would be caught in the spring season (there wasn't any fall season). Immediately prior to the moratorium the limit was 5 - 15" fish/person. You had to be VERY good to catch any, let alone 5. Remember the first years after the moratorium? All of the mid 20" to low 30" fish you could catch, and EVERYBODY loaded their boats. Then we had several unbelievable years of fishing where chumming was the "in" thing - The Hill looked like a boat parking lot, and EVERYBODY loaded their boats. The last few years the larger fish were here in huge numbers in the Spring, countless new people got into the fishery spurred by the adundance of big fish and internet reports, and EVERYBODY loaded their boats. The big fish started making brief runs into the bay in the Fall, guess what, it was posted and EVERYBODY loaded their boats.
We could be entering into a "dip" in the cycle, it certainly happens based on adundant year classes and fishing pressure.
To answer one of your points - yes, there are a lot of crappy fishermen who have been catching because of the huge numbers of fish. When things get a little tougher those people won't be catching as many, or possibly any. A lot of them will complain and drop out of the fishery, some will try to increase there learning curve and become good fishermen. Some will realize when they're in the middle of the "good times" and be thankful they were there.
Another of your points - the commercial gill net season was closed for the rest of the year (on 12/9 I believe). It was closed because the remaining quota had been caught. Evidently there is a healthy population of fish available, or the quota wouldn't have been reached. The gill net season is Jan, Feb and Dec of the calendar year. If the quota is caught at any time - the season is over for the year. The other commercial gear types operate under the same rules and each have a separate quota. If the quota is reached early, the season is shut down.
It would be in the best interests of everyone involved if there was a valid system in place to keep track of the total recreational catch. Then, if their "target" wasn't reached there may be a justifiable reason to extend the season.