Ban Gill Netting in the Chesapeake

[Mark]

Bob, Rich,
All good information and points. I also agree with you to an extent. I'm all for the health of the species but I just find it hard to take away a mans income. I'm sure this is not the intent of the majority, but in my opinion it's a very undesirable consequence. Some people on this board and the other don't seem to care at all which is very disconcerting. I also think that not all but many of these same people would absolutely freak out if they ban planer boards because "they are too efficient a means of catching rockfish.". This is the hypocritical nature of many recs that pisses me off. Could care less about people (other than themselves) losing their jobs, but take away an 18 rod spread and you'll never hear a louder uproar.

Rob, very good data. Thanks for posting it. Shows a lot more netters than I even thought. I really just hope the reaction to illegal netting doesn't lead to 537 men out of work and drawing welfare, creating more crime, people losing their homes, kids not able to eat. That's my only concern with this, and it still won't stop illegal netting which is what set all this uproar in motion in the first place.

[Hockleyneck]

Originally Posted by Mark

Bob, Rich,
All good information and points. I also agree with you to an extent. I'm all for the health of the species but I just find it hard to take away a mans income. I'm sure this is not the intent of the majority, but in my opinion it's a very undesirable consequence. Some people on this board and the other don't seem to care at all which is very disconcerting. I also think that not all but many of these same people would absolutely freak out if they ban planer boards because "they are too efficient a means of catching rockfish.". This is the hypocritical nature of many recs that pisses me off. Could care less about people (other than themselves) losing their jobs, but take away an 18 rod spread and you'll never hear a louder uproar.

Rob, very good data. Thanks for posting it. Shows a lot more netters than I even thought. I really just hope the reaction to illegal netting doesn't lead to 537 men out of work and drawing welfare, creating more crime, people losing their homes, kids not able to eat. That's my only concern with this, and it still won't stop illegal netting which is what set all this uproar in motion in the first place.

I personally do not like to see the waterman losing a source of income, but it would appear they are going to lose it anyway. I was shocked to see the graph that shows rockfish numbers dropping off the cliff and the continued pressure will be unsustainable. The DNR did make changes to the pre season trollings regs, and I think more regs are coming. You can also bet the commercial guys will be pounding on the DNR to get some rec limitations. My money is on more regs for both the commercial and recreational groups are coming, and I am okay with that.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Hockleyneck

I personally do not like to see the waterman losing a source of income, but it would appear they are going to lose it anyway. I was shocked to see the graph that shows rockfish numbers dropping off the cliff and the continued pressure will be unsustainable. The DNR did make changes to the pre season trollings regs, and I think more regs are coming. You can also bet the commercial guys will be pounding on the DNR to get some rec limitations. My money is on more regs for both the commercial and recreational groups are coming, and I am okay with that.

Im ok with new regs for the groups for the health of the species founded in science. Last years regs were founded in retaliation, and if watermen get pissed off at the recs over this and politically pushes for more restrictions as revenge, and they are enacted with no scientific evidence, we are back to square 1. If recs are selfish, watermen will be selfish, and the giant pissing contest just gets more heated and more ridiculous restrictions get pushed. The pissing spillover creates rec on rec infighting, waterman on waterman issues, and rec on watermen issues We should all work together towards compromise and proper fisheries management or no one wins. I vowed after last year i would not get involved in these issues, and im trying to keep that promise I am not going to post anymore on the subject, but will watch it very closely Just a concerned citizen and fisherman.

[Chesapeake Rock]

I just think that banning nets because of a petition thats is not signed by the majority of tax payers would be unjust. It wouldn't be surprising the way out government is run, but it would be wrong. You can get thousands of people to sign a petition off the internet for any topic. Theres 300 million americans, unless the petition got over 150 million it should be voided

[Chesapeake Rock]

I was thinking about it and I was wrong, since the petition is off the World wide internet and the world population is 7 billion you should need 3.5 billion signatures. good luck

[Hockleyneck]

Originally Posted by Mark

Im ok with new regs for the groups for the health of the species founded in science. Last years regs were founded in retaliation, and if watermen get pissed off at the recs over this and politically pushes for more restrictions as revenge, and they are enacted with no scientific evidence, we are back to square 1. If recs are selfish, watermen will be selfish, and the giant pissing contest just gets more heated and more ridiculous restrictions get pushed. The pissing spillover creates rec on rec infighting, waterman on waterman issues, and rec on watermen issues We should all work together towards compromise and proper fisheries management or no one wins. I vowed after last year i would not get involved in these issues, and im trying to keep that promise I am not going to post anymore on the subject, but will watch it very closely Just a concerned citizen and fisherman.

I did not realize the commercial guys (knew about some charter guys) were behind the trolling restrictions. I agree it is a tinkling contest, but it always seemed to be this way to me. I agree on the compromises, and would support a one fish limit until July 1 and having on C&R until May 15th. This will hurt the charter guys, but we need to change the culture of rockfishing which seems to be stuck in killing all of the fish.

[Southerly]

it's been awhile since civics in high school (and i may not have been there that day) so i'm a little confused about the political process as regards a petition.

i've always assumed petitions either 1) showed intent of 'a bunch' of people to be used as part of some attempt to get the attention of lawmakers, but were not politically/legally binding in any real way, or 2) could be used to get an issue placed on the regular ballot as a process of law.

is one, or other, or something else the case now?

[crabby and son]

Originally Posted by Southerly

it's been awhile since civics in high school (and i may not have been there that day) so i'm a little confused about the political process as regards a petition.

i've always assumed petitions either 1) showed intent of 'a bunch' of people to be used as part of some attempt to get the attention of lawmakers, but were not politically/legally binding in any real way, or 2) could be used to get an issue placed on the regular ballot as a process of law.

is one, or other, or something else the case now?

You are correct in your assumption Southerly. MD has about 6 million people and even if 5 million signed it, it would not be law. It is an attention getter by the people to the legislature. It is a lobby which is also big business in MD.

Net fishing is also a business that does involve many different industries. We are attempting to change one aspect of that industry. Netting. Fish will still be caught, transported, processed and sold. This change is not a battle or punishment against commercial fishermen, it is a conservation issue to protect a fishery. We are giving this petition to the MD legislators, not he DNR. This is a legal process and bargaining is involved. Hopefully the end result will be a conservation of our fishery. It is protecting the commercial fisherman's future also.

[Fish Nut]

Reds, The numbers I posted were from DNR they are the number of licenses for commercial fishing in 2009. Posted for a request From Hockleyneck . At this time I believe it is time for the discussion about gillnets in Maryland. As with all of these discussions hopefully the resource will be better in the end. I am not anti watermen. My close family works the water they Crab, run eel pots and net perch. With the past and current events of illegal gillnetting it is apparent that the state agencies have extreme difficulty policing and regulating the gillnet gear type in Maryland. Hopefully, the current concerns and petition will create a situation in which the state will give proper resources and or rethink the standards operating procedures for the gillnet fishery. I think we both can agree that procedures can be changed to make the managing of the gear type more robust. The commercial industry in Maryland has always denounced poaching but on this front they have been unable to police themselves. It is time for something to be done to control outlaw poaching. Poaching with gill nets due to their efficiency, takes fish from the public resource at an exponential rate. This is what has concerned the citizens of Maryland. Unfortunately, when the picture of the tons of illegal rock fish were shown on local and mid Atlantic TV the entire gillnet fishery came under scrutiny. The initial feelings from me and most was if DNR can’t control poaching during the legal gillnet season then it needs to be closed until they can legitimately demonstrate control of the poaching. The reason I say this is, Poaching / using gillnets is occurring under the umbrella of the legal gillnet season. When this gear type is used in a highly regulated fishery such as Gill nets it is impossible for DNR to manage the fishery based on quotas for the fishery. Therefore DNR need to step up to the plate and fix this problem. Who would have thought that the fishery sting we had a few years ago was huge sweeping all the way into the fish retail& wholesale food markets. What we have seen over the past few years with illegal gill net seizures WE AKA Maryland have a huge problem.

As far as social economics of Striped Bass we can agree to disagree.

Some more facts.

Main , Connecticut, New Hampshire, New Jersey & South Carolina Have no commercial harvest Of rock Fish.
Massachusetts Has a Hook& Line fishery ONLY
Rhode Island has a Fish trap and hook & line Fishery
Delaware has a Hook & line & a Gillnet Fishery
Virginia has a Hook & line & a Gillnet Fishery
New York has Hook & Line Pound Nets Fish traps Gillnets
Maryland has Hook & Line Pound Nets Gill Nets Haul seines
North Carolina has everything
Potomac River Hook & Line Pound Nets Gill Nets.

5 states Under the striped bass managment of the ASMFS allow gill netting and one more for the Potomac fishery
7 States don’t allow Gillnets.

[Fish Nut]

Originally Posted by Mark

Rob, very good data. Thanks for posting it. Shows a lot more netters than I even thought. I really just hope the reaction to illegal netting doesn't lead to 537 men out of work and drawing welfare, creating more crime, people losing their homes, kids not able to eat. That's my only concern with this, and it still won't stop illegal netting which is what set all this uproar in motion in the first place.

Mark, Numbers of licenses doesn’t reflect individuals actively working. People hold licenses for many different reasons. Individual can transfer or sell there licenses to other individuals and allow them to work that permit for its allocation. There are regulations on what combination and how many licenses you can hold at any given time.