Rec on Rec fishing...

[Billj]

Originally Posted by Night Nurse

Shawn
I think your missing the point which is as "Fisherman and woman" we need to stand together. You say you don't have a dog in the fight with rod restrictions, But, my good man you DO. Just Because I don't tie my flys or dip my jigs in paint n gloss doesn't mean I won't be there for you if some one decides that too should be banned or limited.

If we do not stand together ( all of us ) we will fail at our own hand.

TED

Ted,
Shawn was there, along with many other light tackle fishermen, all winter long, at every meeting fighting for fishermen's rights. He stood side by side with trollers and bait fishermen and fly fishermen as did many of us and fought to keep C&R restriction free. We need to stand together, and not have posts like this. I have known Greg a long time and know what he meant by this post, but I don't think it should be up here, but I respect his right and opinion to post it. I think posts like this are more divisive than uniting. I have been posting since this started, mainly on TF, that we need to keep stuff like this off the boards. We are all grown men and most of us, at least on this board, communicate via phone or e mail or text and just IMHO probably better in this case...

maybe not so much on this board as it is a smaller and more controlled audience, but on TF it is going to cause more problems...this all stemmed from Jamie asking how many rods you troll...talk about a turnaround! Maybe I'm just tired, but that's how I read it...
Mark

[Night Nurse]

Mark,
I did not mean to offend anyone, just saying we need to stand together for all rec fisherman not just pick and choose.
I want everyone to catch a fish however way THEY choose to.

TED

[reds]

Rumor has it, there is a red herring within your group. He is working hard to do harm to the Spring Season.

Here is a little tip to the red herring. If the catch and keep season is shortened, the catch and release season will be also. *** for tat.

[B-Faithful]

Reds, I doubt the catch and release season could be shortened. I know I would be one of the first in line to potentially challenge that under the Freedom to Fish Act. As Baldy stated, we all stood together on that subject and I know that would be the same.

Point of my thread was to address the growing sentiment against the practice of trolling, not attack those that primarily enjoy fishing in other ways. Also, my addressing the issue wasnt solely based on Shawn's articles at all but a growing judgement that is becoming clearly evident, particularly on Tidalfish, through many other responses. There are numerous posts that show either an sense of elitism over those who troll or deragatory remarks because so many people enjoy the practice this time of year. Some may believe it is an over-sensative concern but lets also face the facts that:

• DNR targetted trolling specifically with their catch and release restrictions without any science or information on the efficiency or impact of the practice
• DNR is now interviewing anglers at access points to how they are fishing and how many rods
• Representatives on the SFAC have shown little appreciation for the act of trolling during the catch and release debate with their vote/recommendation(CBF member stated that he didnt think it was particularly sporting, Lateral Line/TidalFish rep wanted to limit the number of days one can troll, CBF presented a compromise that all but eliminated trolling through gear restrictions of one rod per angler and it was deemed acceptable by others on the commission)
• DNR has noted the increase in "efficiency" by recreational anglers in their report to why Maryland recreational anglers drastically increased the fish harvested during the trophy season (went from about 1 fish for every 5 trips taken to almost 1 fish per 3 trips taken by recs- they did also note larger min of 2006, no take slot of 2007, fuel prices of 2008, and more "fishable" days of 2009)

There are just concerns over this growing sentiment by some from within our community and it encouraging our fisheries managers to further restrictions are valid. I thought enough so that it is worthy of addressing publicly.

My post was not to "call out" anyone or specially target Shawn or Jamie, both of who I and many others have the highest level of respect for. However Shawns article and the thread that Jamie started, whether innocent or just having fun, do contribute to the other fires that have seemingly been burning. Lets face it Jamies post can easily be read that he was implying this:

Just curious...I was just wondering, some guys have had great success so far this week and some have not...just wanted to see how big your boat is and how many rods do you troll....
I will start...I use 1 rod (because I am so good I dont need more)...st. croix med action avid...3000 Shimano saros....of course not (lowly) trolling it's only for Light tackle (which is a better method of fishing because it doesnt require multiple rods for effectiveness) ......
Sometimes I throw trolling rods on the boat... (only because) it looks really cool riding down the road with the parachutes waving and all lined up.....

To state other-wise is naive. Why would he ask how many rods people are trolling then state that he will start the thread by stating that only uses one rod to jig? He also noted that he will bring trolling rods but doesnt say how many (the whole point of his thread!) and only notes that he thinks the parachutes waving in the wind look cool. If he was looking for real information on efficiency he could have asked how many fish were caught and how many rods were being trolled to see if there was a link given the opening statement of his thread. Like I said, I normally would find it innocent and did initially until my phone was ringing off the hook with guys questioning what is going on with DNR interviewing anglers at SPSP about trolling effort after what we went through over the winter.

If it makes me a bad guy for asking all recreational anglers to not foster these-types of sentiments or fuel the fire, whether the posts are in fun or not, then so be it. I have tried not to criticize those who enjoy fishing in different manners than myself. I have strived to point out that we all have the same creel, size limits and season length. We also strive to maximize efficiency on the water with the methods that we choose to use. Again, I dont target Shawn or Jamie but do want to target the judgement against trolling. Jamies post just was the best place to communicate it publicly since the thread had so much attention.

I should also note that I probably make almost as many trips jigging a year as I do trolling. The trips are just shorter and mostly through the summer and fall until late oct/november when the migratory fish show back up. I have also learned a lot from shawns articles and Jamies posts and believe I have become a better fishermen because of them.

I hope this clears up why I started this thread and took the time to respond to the the thread on TF the way that I did. It is not my intentions to be critical of any person specifically or the method in which one choses to fish.

If anyone wants to call to discuss further, my cell is 410.533.1435.

Originally Posted by Night Nurse

Mark,
I did not mean to offend anyone, just saying we need to stand together for all rec fisherman not just pick and choose.
I want everyone to catch a fish however way THEY choose to.

TED

Ted,
No offense at all..in my own way i as agreeing with you, just letting you know about Shawn standing right up for all recs rights this winter...I'm pretty sure he was at every meeting. Hell I fish every way known to man...while I consider myself a Light Tackle guy, I like almost every method...(I can take or leave chumming )

I just think this topic exploded...but I've been trying to stay away from this issue and C&R lately as I Get too fired up about it...

[Shawn Kimbro]

Don't you guys have better things to do than worry about what me and Jamie think about trolling? I mean, c'mon. With all the challenges out there to sport fishing, you want to go after your friends? Greg, I'm surprised and disappointed. You have more worthy battles to fight.

Reds, I dunno if you're talking about me, but you are damn right I am working to reduce the killing of pre-spawn cows and it ain't no secret. I think a slot is the best way to handle it.

[Shawn Kimbro]

So now I get a backchannel message that says, "we know you are working behind the scenes to ban trolling."


What?

Like I said, I don't have a dog in the fight. The only "behind the scenes" stuff I even know about is that DNR is preparing a "Best Practices" list for trolling. I didn't have anything to do with it and wasn't asked for my input. In fact, when I heard about it, the first person I called to get advice was....... guess who, Greg "Be Faithful". Why? Because I know he understands the issues better than I do.

Otherwise, I've had some conversations with some people (not DNR) about trying to get cradle net videos on some trolled fish for CarefulCatch.com. I hope to do that at some point.

I'm not, never will be, never want to be, in a position to have any political input on trolling. If it comes up again in C&R, of course I'll stand with the trollers because it's rediculous to go after the least harmful method. Read my lips: I support C&R trolling and C&K killing except for killing the cows.

That said, I don't see why everyone isn't casting lures because of how easy it is. And, I'm still gonna laugh at you when you're dragging around those rake handles. I look at trolling like bad breath. Some of my best friends do it but I don't want it right it in my face. So shoot me. Every fishing friend I have, on the Bay or otherwise, sometimes trolls. So far, except for Greg, they haven't started shooting.

So, I'm also gonna take the most drastic political action I've ever taken on this subject. I'm gonna say a prayer for Greg: "Dear Lord, please let Greg catch more fish with 24 rods than I catch with one so he will shut up and leave me the hell alone."

[B-Faithful]

Shawn, Please read this wordy response at it explains where we are together and why this topic is important to me. (I know I can be wordy and it is easy just to glanse over my writings without reading it)

I am also disappointed in that I believe I had to address a small but growing sentiment that trolling isnt as sporting as other methods. However it is real. There are even people putting up reports here that title them as "Non Sporting Fishing Report" when they catch fish via trolling.

You are right though that there are bigger fish to fry. However I see this as a key point as we move forward. We will see eye to eye on a possible need to reduce the harvest on spawning stock fish. Even if one doesnt believe this is the case, the number of fish harvested last spring does have the eye of some other states in the ASMFC and has the potential to be forced. Where you may fail to miss my point regarding this growing negative sentiment is in that there are several ways Maryland can reduce its harvest on the recreational side. They are:

1. creel limits,
2. season length,
3. size limits, and
4. efficiency.

This is why this topic is so important to me. Maryland cannot reduce its creel limit since it is at 1 fish per angler. The length of the season will be difficult to argue for as the trophy season has a HUGE economic impact to our state and a reduction in season length would probably have the greatest negative impact on that. So now we are left with size limits and efficiency.

Given the anti-trolling sentiment, arguements by the charter boat assn over the catch and release debate that the no-take slot limits of the past had excessive mortality, and combined with the action taken on the preseason and dnr's own data showing an increase in efficiency on the recreational side, it is easy to fear that efficiency would be an easy target. I fear rod and gear restrictions would be easy targets and DNR would only be embolded to take such actions through this sentiment by a few. I also fear a reduction in ones ability to troll more efficiently to turn people off from fishing all together from the spring season reducing the economic impact and participation levels of fishing. To me, a weakening of recreational fishing means a less attention to the needs of recreational fishing causes and strengthens the commercial fishing markets (as their economic impact means more to the state).

I fully agree with you that size limits are best way to handle this. We may disagree in what size-limit restrictions would be best for our state and our fishery but that is a debate for a later date. This will be a small issue in the sceme of things once we get to that point.

The point in my thread was to target the language being used to make trolling look inferior to other methods of fishing. I believe a reduction in this talk will better allow us to debate real issues - like what size or slot limits will best foster a good fishery in Maryland both today and tomorrow. I want to work to enhanse fishing in Maryland to the point where we can even argue for more of the allocation because recreational fishing has grown so much in economic value and participation. I just dont think that is possible when one type of recreational fishermen is viewing their method as "better" than anothers.

I hope this clears up my perspective to why this topic is important to me and you understand that I am not "going after" my friends. I attempted to do my best to publicly go after the language used and not the people. I apologize if you see that differently. If you believe my thoughts and arguements to be off base, I certainly am open to understanding your thoughts.

BTW, I have NEVER stated that you were working to restrict trolling. DNR and members of the SFAC have done a fine job of that without justification. I am just trying to eliminate the environment that would bolster their confidence to do so.

[JohnnyO]

Man I am all sorts of poorly named things because I troll,chum,live line and jig! My heart certianly is in the right place though in my truly humble opinion when it comes to the verilaty of the fishery and getting along with other anglers.
I trolled with 10 rods 2 days in a row and boated 1 fish each day for what it's worth.I like to eat fish and follow the rules set by our govt.. I would be fine with a 1 fish creel limit year round in all bodies of water Rock roam, it wouldn't keep me off the water one more second than I already do. I personally find enjoyment in caching fish with each different type of fishing because it is a challeng or sometimes just a nice change of pace, but i can assure you there is some talent in setting up and catching fish using a trolling spread and sometimes more than jigging!
It doesn't make any sense to me as we ALL have rights (commercial,rec and so on) set up by the powers that be to bust on anyone that follows the rules!
Most anglers are men (or boys in mens bodies!) and there in lies the problem! Our egos, our wounds and other issues we have as men are the problem and there is only one way in MHO to correct that.

Johnny O