Ban Gill Netting in the Chesapeake

[Mark]

Originally Posted by crabby and son

Reds, The comment , you reap what you sew was not a comment directed at you unless you are a poacher. You read it as you want to read it. Yes there are bad cops but not 43%. We don't need a $30,000.00 reward to turn the bad cops in. We do it out of pride and self esteem. We don't tolerate the bad cops and accept them as our brothers. If a police officer is charged even with a misdemeanor, chances are he will lose his job. I guess a waterman is an OK guy if he has just been charged with misdemeanors A waterman is about the only one that keeps his license after 20-50 misdemeanor violations. Even a professional driver or Home Improvement Contractor will lose his license after a few misdemeanor violations. Take, take, take is OVER and we will do the best we can to rid the Chesapeake Bay of nets.Oh , and 2 poachers is a joke too!!!.Instead of spending time on here defending nets, you should go and sharpen your hooks!.......Gary

As a rec, I don't like the recs lumping all watermen in one group as poachers. Not that that is what Gary was doing but it comes across that way. But, Telling them to go sharpen their hooks is just a "go f yourself" after that. Putting a lot of hard working, honest watermen out of work for poachers will solve nothing. Poachers will poach regardless of what ban you put out there. Do i like netting, no, but i like taking away another mans means of supporting his family even less. It's like saying, "doctors are caught practicing without a license every day and people are dying because of it. We need to ban all doctors from practicing medicine.". Sounds stupid, right? Its an extreme example, but its just to make a point. The net ban comes across as completely self serving, just as the reallocation in the name of conservation does. Do you really think these criminals will say, "oh crap, they banned netting! We have to stop poaching now!" Do we really believe all other states will follow suit, or will their watermen prosper as ours flounder? Will they applaud the efforts in public while they laugh behind our backs as they cash our watermens checks?

Telling them to go be hook and liners, in many cases, is like telling them to learn a new trade. For a cop, since we are on that, it's like saying, " there have been a lot of killings by rogue cops out there. Go learn to slide own a pole and put out fires. "

[crabby and son]

I just want to see the day when there are NO nets allowed in the Chesapeake Bay. I am not anti waterman nor did I make a personal attack on Reds. If you took it as a personal attack, please accept my apology. I don't know you and have no reason to believe that you have DNR violations or are a poacher. I do not hide my feelings with smiley faces. If I have something to say, I will say it and stand behind it. I have a construction business that has basically shut down in this economy. No one is going to bail me out and I have to change gears and find another way to support myself. If nets are banned, netters need to find another way to support themselves. Life ain't easy and it's not fair. Things happen for a reason and all this bad poaching might lead to the net ban. Something good does come out of something bad sometimes. This ban in my opinion is the best thing for the fishery.................Gary

[hippie]

Mark, While I agree with most all you have said I cannot agree with your statement concerning the net banning. It is a simple question of what is best for the species. It really has nothing to do with the waterman. Yea sure they will be put out of business but remember, the DNR is to protect the fisheries NOT get involved in the economics of society. Therefore they (DNR) should not even consider what the waterman will do or the effects upon them due to closing the bay to their nets.

Another statement is will other states follow Mds' example? Well if a person checks around they will find that Md. is behind the times and most all states have already banned the netters. That is why their fisheries are on the rebound while the Ches. Bay fisheries are becoming extinct.

Asking a cop to become a fireman. What is wrong with that? Remember the mon & pop corner stores, US Steel, the coal miners? These people all had to make changes because their jobs fell by the wayside, so what makes the waterman special? I've had a lot of jobs only to be laid off and find another job in a different field. This is reality-the real world!

Bob

[Hockleyneck]

Originally Posted by Mark

As a rec, I don't like the recs lumping all watermen in one group as poachers. Not that that is what Gary was doing but it comes across that way. But, Telling them to go sharpen their hooks is just a "go f yourself" after that. Putting a lot of hard working, honest watermen out of work for poachers will solve nothing. Poachers will poach regardless of what ban you put out there. Do i like netting, no, but i like taking away another mans means of supporting his family even less. It's like saying, "doctors are caught practicing without a license every day and people are dying because of it. We need to ban all doctors from practicing medicine.". Sounds stupid, right? Its an extreme example, but its just to make a point. The net ban comes across as completely self serving, just as the reallocation in the name of conservation does. Do you really think these criminals will say, "oh crap, they banned netting! We have to stop poaching now!" Do we really believe all other states will follow suit, or will their watermen prosper as ours flounder? Will they applaud the efforts in public while they laugh behind our backs as they cash our watermens checks?

Telling them to go be hook and liners, in many cases, is like telling them to learn a new trade. For a cop, since we are on that, it's like saying, " there have been a lot of killings by rogue cops out there. Go learn to slide own a pole and put out fires. "

I am not sure how many gill net permits exist, but would a ban really affect that many people? The mates could hook and line, the price would go up so the boat owners could make more per pound. The income from netting rockfish is also a suplemental part of most waterman's income correct? I am not sure the impact would be that great except for a few, but it would interesting to have the numbers to run.

[Mikie]

"It really has nothing to do with the waterman. Yea sure they will be put out of business but remember, the DNR is to protect the fisheries NOT get involved in the economics of society. Therefore they (DNR) should not even consider what the waterman will do or the effects upon them due to closing the bay to their nets."

Actually, I believe you will find if you check the mission statement of the DNR, socio-economic impact is a large and required factor to be used in their determinations of regulation and management.

[Spot77]

Random question unaffiliated with the biological implications of the nets:

Has anyone ever gotten their boat tangled up in one?

I remember reading about a musician...Orlando Something leaving a gig in Annapolis a few years ago and straying into a net which pulled his cruiser under at the stern.

[reds]

Originally Posted by Hockleyneck

I am not sure how many gill net permits exist, but would a ban really affect that many people? The mates could hook and line, the price would go up so the boat owners could make more per pound. The income from netting rockfish is also a suplemental part of most waterman's income correct? I am not sure the impact would be that great except for a few, but it would interesting to have the numbers to run.

Do you guys ever read anything you sign?

The petition clearly states "All Nets". All nets doesn't mean gill nets, it means what it says.

The economic impact to Maryland in banning all net fishing, would be in the hundreds of million dollars and around 5000 jobs state wide. The catching of rockfish commercially, for Virginia and Maryland amounts to $93,000,000.

[Skip]

Spot 77 - If I remember right - the guys hit a pound net off West river at night.

The outdrive got wrapped up in the net and it held the boat as waves came in and sank it.

Pound nets can be tricky to see - often not very well marked.

Odd but I think his boat had been sunk once before he bought it.

[Chesapeake Rock]

I don't know how that petition could ever be a tool to ban nets. It should be what the majority wants. for instance, there were a quater of a million people that passed through the doors of the Pasedena show and only 800 signed in favor of a ban. Why would the minority ever be able to make a decsion like that?

[Fish Nut]

Originally Posted by Hockleyneck

I am not sure how many gill net permits exist, but would a ban really affect that many people? The mates could hook and line, the price would go up so the boat owners could make more per pound. The income from netting rockfish is also a suplemental part of most waterman's income correct? I am not sure the impact would be that great except for a few, but it would interesting to have the numbers to run.

These are some notes cribed from a friend

2009 Numbers from DNR:

1. Total number of commercial fishermen in Maryland harvesting rockfish

In 2009, there were 1135 commercial licensees that received striped bass permits, Of these potential commercial harvesters, 796 actually harvested striped bass in 2009. In the commercial striped bass fishery, licensees must declare their intent to fish for striped bass prior to the start of the calendar year. Participants may declare into one of five different sub-fisheries based on gear type. These sub-fisheries include gill net and hook and line, hook and line only, pound net, haul seine, and Atlantic trawl and gill net.

Within each sub-fishery, fishermen may hold multiple permits through a transfer process that allows inactive fishermen to transfer a declared permit to active fishermen. This process allows striped bass harvesters to hold up to four gill net permits, five pound net permits, or four Atlantic trawl and gill net permits. Licensees declared for hook and line may only hold one hook and line permit and may not hold a permit for hook and line if they hold a pound net permit. In 2009, there were 2030 total permits issued to 1135 licensees. There were 818 gill net permits issued to 726 licensees in the gill net sub-fishery, 443 of which actually harvested striped bass. There were 961 permits issued to 961 licensees in the hook and line fishery, with 390 of the licensees actually harvesting striped bass. In the pound net sub-fishery, 101 licensees received 178 permits, with 94 of the licensees actively harvesting striped bass. Only four permits were issued to four licensees in the haul seine fishery, and none of the licensees harvested striped bass commercially. Finally, 69 permits were issued to 62 licensees in the Atlantic sub-fishery, with all 62 licensees harvesting commercial striped bass.

Gear Type --- Permits issued --- Licensees --- Participants
Gill Net ------- 818 --------------- 726 ----------- 443
Hook and Line --- 961 --------------- 961 ----------- 390
Pound Net ------- 178-----------------101------------ 94
Haul Seine ------- 4 ------------------- 4-------------- 0
Atlantic ------------69-------------------69--------------62

2. Total number of harvested rockfish by commercial fishermen in 2009

Chesapeake Bay commercial fishermen harvested 649,033 total fish and 2,267,099 lbs of rockfish in 2009. Atlantic commercial fishermen harvested 13,409 total fish and 127,327 pounds of rockfish in 2009.

Chesapeake Bay harvests by gear type:
Gill Net: 286,982 fish, 1,050,188 pounds
Hook and Line: 191760 fish, 650,013 pounds
Pound Net: 170,291 fish, 566,898 pounds
Haul Seine: 0 fish, 0 pounds