Really?

[reds]

Find the pictures of the fish being held for picture taking, with the blood running down their bodies. You posted them on Tidal Fish that spring and they were posted on other fishing boards up the coast by others.

ASMFC members saw the pictures and the questions of mortality arose.

How about posting the month/day and year so all can see the original post?

[JigStix]

How bout just deleting the post, no need to put hte whole thing back up there again???? Seriously!!! Give them the details all over again, make it fresher in their minds. You f'd up, people know it, more will consider you a pariah for doing it, than will consider you a hero, don't drag the whole post up again. Delete it, please!

As far as the 2010 season being as bad as it's ever been, come on. Either you are lying about your counts (which I've heard you did), or you lost your mojo. From Breezy and North we had a fabulous season, as did most of my friends. Less people posted, and people fudged numbers to the downside, but most were doing that on the high side before anyway. DNR will never be able to get an accurate # based on reports on Tidalfish, so why lie? They don't take their catch numbers from Tidalfish, but they will use posts showing poor catch practices that negatively impact the spawning stock and extrapolate it forward assuming if someone of your "great fishing prowess" treats spawning fish like that, us lesser beings must all do the same thing.

[Skip]

Reds - Try 4 - 5 2009.
I found it on page # 615.
They photos that had fish bleeding in them were fish we kept / killed - taken during the kill season.


JigStix - That was a once in a lifetime experience having that many rods hit in the spring. Anyone who fishes knows that - it was like a golfer getting a hole in one.

My spring was bad - honest. I had a 3 or 4 fish average and fished longer for those few fish. I had a few days with just one fish and got skunked as well. Some were under 27 inches - very odd for early spring. I had one decent day that bumped my average up. I know many good recs. who had similar results.
I had friends out on full day charters that did not get their 6 fish limit.

Early season C/R is not the trouble - let me go find a bat so I can beat this dead horse some more.

[reds]

Originally Posted by Skip

Reds - Try 4 - 5 2009.
I found it on page # 615.
They photos that had fish bleeding in them were fish we kept / killed - taken during the kill season.


JigStix - That was a once in a lifetime experience having that many rods hit in the spring. Anyone who fishes knows that - it was like a golfer getting a hole in one.

My spring was bad - honest. I had a 3 or 4 fish average and fished longer for those few fish. I had a few days with just one fish and got skunked as well. Some were under 27 inches - very odd for early spring. I had one decent day that bumped my average up. I know many good recs. who had similar results.
I had friends out on full day charters that did not get their 6 fish limit.

Early season C/R is not the trouble - let me go find a bat so I can beat this dead horse some more.

The fish came in the Bay earlier this past spring. By the time the spring season opened, most of the big fish had come and gone. I guess they don't have calenders.

Anglers were catching big Stripers off the Jersey coast in late March and early April and reporting it on the northern boards.

The horse is not dead only sleeping.

[SimpleBiology]

Originally Posted by reds

The fish came in the Bay earlier this past spring. By the time the spring season opened, most of the big fish had come and gone. I guess they don't have calenders.

Anglers were catching big Stripers off the Jersey coast in late March and early April and reporting it on the northern boards.

The horse is not dead only sleeping.

I concur with Red. I started fishing the first week in march with good results. My best day of the trophy season was March 24. After the season opened I had poor fishing. That can be attributed to many of my lackings however I was catching them weeks before April 15th.

To Jigstix: I apologize for bringing up such a sore subject, I simply was unaware of the circumstances surrounding this conversation. Thanks to everyone else for educating me and bringing me up to speed.

[drichitt]

Originally Posted by Blakesdad

I'm scrapping the barrel to keep this place alive.. Sorry...

I think I'm going fishing this weekend, so maybe a report will be my next thread...

We really need another topic to discuss..

Since Steve and Shawn have abandoned ship, no fishing reports.

Come to think of it.. Hockey starts Friday !!!!

Any other thoughts ??? Stinkbugs ??? Governors race ??? Portis out for 6 weeks !!!! ( don't really care, but his injury sounds PAINFUL !!!!)

Brian - I think you stirred things up just fine.

[5th Tuition]

Came out of church today and the first thing I noticed was the tops of the trees were not moving. My son and daughterinlaw are using the boat today. I can't wait for tomorrow; I may even steal a few hours before dark tonight. Fall pattern is in full swing. Lots of fish at the mouth of rivers waiting for the bait to come out on a falling tide.

GO FISHING
5th (Marty)

[B-Faithful]

Originally Posted by JigStix

Believe me, I understand the process, and I know who you are and was at all but maybe one or two meetings last year. Just because I'm a redneck, does not make me a dumb redneck. You were very outstpoken, as were quite a few others on Tidalfish. In the beginning it was quite a good debate. But, then I saw the posts you refer to between you and some of the more promintent jiggers. Not just you, but a few others too. I know what they said to you, and I saw what you all said to them. Then I saw it start to get personal. I saw one person finally have it with you, and I saw you indirectly blast another prominent light tackle fisherman who just bought one of the boats you represent. Probably not your best moment I assume. Believe me, I understand the process, and I understand what went on behind the scenes, and I understand the defensive posture many trollers took (and justifiably so), but the light tackle guys stood right beside you and fought even though it did not effect them at all. I'm not so sure the outspoken trollers would have done the same had the shoe been on the other foot.. What I dont understand is how it got so out of hand.

Yes, there was some teasing going on, but you fellas always tease on this board. Just seems you were a little more sensitive (and understandbly so) about this craziness. What I don't understand is why they (you included) began to ask the question "why are there no restrictions on jiggers" "why are you only targeting trolling." When you resigned yourself to the fact that you were getting trolling restrictions, rather than regroup and say "how are we going to fix this going forward", you began to lash out. Not all the time, but you and others got quite defensive. It was as if you wished since there were restrictions on trolling, other methods should get them too, not what should have been done; and that is to work together and have the restrictions taken away in the future. I don't know if it was you or one of your friends, but what stuck in my craw was the comment I read "well you jiggers can just deal with it, because now us trollers are going to start flooding all your spots. See how you like that"

Remember, it was a troller, trolling through a gannet bee hive that started the mess to begin with. If you didn't feel the need to brag all the time and post all your big dead rockfish, none of this mess would have happened. I have no problem with you, I like what you stand for mostly, but you are partially guilty for the divide.

At this point, yes, I agree with you. Let's let the past be the past, but if this mess comes up again, let's all think twice and work together and keep the infighting to a minimum. I have since moved to south county so access to Annapolis meetings are out of my range, but you localy boys are gonna need to be there. My sources say we will see quite a few more proposals this winter, so we need to be ready and make sure we keep full access to the resource. Keep charging hard young man and keep 'er on point and we'll have lots of fish to catch for a long time.

I wasnt going to respond as these are old debates and I do want to move on. However I do think the arguements and positions I took are worth clarifying. I sincerely hope since this is still a big issue for you that you go back and reread all my posts on the subject now that time has passed. I only spoke publicly at the final meeting so you can see all my positions online. I havent gone back and edited anything.

I think and hope you will find that all my arguements were towards keeping access and opportunity open for everyone regardless of how they fished. Some of my arguments in the debate did included that those who jig in areas of high fish concentrations produced some large catch numbers just as there have been a few large catch numbers reported by trollers. This certainly was not in search of tighter regulations on those that like to jig but to show that no one knows who is more efficient because either method can produce a good day of fishing (which isnt a bad thing - it is what all fishermen are in search of) and efficiency regulations shouldnt be enacted because of a few good reports. This was an important part of the debate as I was seeking to have the regulations focus solely focus on mortality of the fish and not ones opportunity to catch a fish. Of anyone in the debate who would have fought hard to ensure that regulations didnt include area closures or day closures were not enacted that would have greatly impacted light tackle guys, it would have been me. I think if you search you will find that I was the one who brought the "Freedom to Fish Act" to the table publicly and I assure you that I would have been the first to challenge the strength of the act legally had DNR enacted day closures or area closures without scientific justification. I also helped get the RFA involved and was very involved with helping the MSSA. I wasnt pointing fingers and calling for more regulation at all. I was calling for less regulation than they wanted to enact. I think the whole issue was silly since DNR didnt even have an objective or goal with regulations that they put forth. This should be important to all fishermen as the DNR has shown a willingness to restrict recreational fishing without knowing the impact of a fishery (ie. participation levels, approx catch numbers, efficiency of the anglers, etc) or with out a target goal to say whether or not the restrictions enacted were effective or not.

Regarding the issues I had with some more "prominate light tackle guys". That came long after the preseason debate had ended and during the trophy season. Do I wish things were handled differently? Sure. I will be the first to admit that. I am not sure how Shawn feels about me as he has never expressed ill-feelings towarnds me. However, I know the relationship between Jamie and I certainly is strained and I think it is ashame. Not only do we have the love of fishing in common but we share some of the same friends. If you go back to the threads where this happened, I hope you will see where I was attempting to reduce the ridicule of trolling as we just had all the restrictions enacted. I like teasing most of the time and maybe I was a little over sensative at the time. However, I didnt even respond until several pages had gone by on TF and I had received many emails, calls and phone calls about the thread. I even attempted to address the issue over here where very few would read it. Obviously it didnt go over as well as I had hoped and I would probably deal with it differently today. While guys who like to troller were oversensative to the teasing, it wasnt a good time for the ridicule due to the recent regulations and the fact that DNR was surveying anglers on gear deployed at the same time. The riff is probably more of a result of being oversensative on my part and bad timing on theirs.

I agree that we we need to all stick together to protect access and opportunity for recreational fishermen here in Maryland. I understand the YOY was extremely low again this year and it is raising a few eyebrows. I doubt the preseason catch and release guys will face much this year as according to DNR the MRFSS wave 1 data showed that there are "very few fishing families" during this time of year. Given the statements earlier in this thread about the early spawn, I have major concerns over the Jan-Mar gill net season in the bay. Gillnetters where even so efficient this past winter that Sec Griffin closed the season twice to prevent the quota from being reached early and to help drive up the price of the fish since their commercial value had been "depressed" (according to DNR). Obviously the ASMFC has to address the coastal fishery problems. We will need to stand together..

If you ever want to call to discuss something I had said or how we can work together, feel free to give me a buzz. I am passionate about ensuring our opportunity to have access to our public natural resources and devote a lot of time and engery into it. I certainly am going to make mistakes and upset people at times but I cannot address those issues without conversation. Sometimes upsetting some cannot be helped either. We all have our own vision to how things should be handled. However, I think most of us recreational fishermen have very similar goals.

BTW, My cell is 410.533.1435. Feel free to call me.

[Hockleyneck]

I personally do not feel it was Skip who stirred the DNR into action. They had their own plans and made their move. Unfortunately we did not work togethe and the restrictions were made. Lets stay together and get ready for the winter meetings and possible further restrictions.

Hope you guys are looking forward to the fall bite, I know I am.

[Blakesdad]

Originally Posted by drichitt

Brian - I think you stirred things up just fine.

All I said was PENIS !!!! And then the mods changed the title, and it went from there...:r olleyes:

I still do admire everyone's dedication to their passion, regardless of what side of the aisle you are on. Carry on gentlemen....